Driving Himself To Jail

, , , , , | Right | June 17, 2017

(I am in line at the DMV getting my new tags for 2015.)

Customer: “I would like to renew my driver’s license, please.”

Lady: “Sure, just let me see your card.”

(The man hands her his license and she enters some numbers into the computer.)

Lady: “Sir, your license expired in 1998. Have you been driving with it since then?”

Customer: “Wait, they expire? I though you just had to get a new picture! Well, what are you going to do, arrest me?”

(A police officer steps out of line.)

Officer: “Yes, as a matter of fact, I will arrest you for driving without a valid license.”

(The officer arrested the man and took him off to his car and drove away.)

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VOTES
  • Greg MacDonald

    Must have been the end of the month to get his quota.

    • Powers

      Yes, it does seem a bit petty. I mean the man was there getting it renewed.

      • Joana Hill

        He’d admitted to driving on an expired license for seventeen years, though. A lot of ‘petty’ crimes, when built up that long, become much bigger.

        • Brian Boorman

          No he didn’t. At least now how it’s worded in this story.

          • Joana Hill

            Yes he did. When the person at the counter said it expired in 1998, he said “Wait, they expire? What are you going to do, arrest me?”. He did not try to fight against it, he acknowledged that the person was correct but was pretty much saying “Hah like you can do anything.”

          • heymoe2001

            That’s not admitting to driving.

          • Mimi

            That’s not saying he drove.

          • Denton Young

            He issued a challenge to the cop’s authority. In an American cop’s mind that’s all they need to take you in.

        • Mimi

          He never said he’d been driving.

          There is no requirement to renew (or even have) a license unless you are going to be driving.

          They can’t prove he was ever driving, ergo no offense, not ticket, and certainly no arrest much less no “much bigger.”

      • Kathy Plester

        The law is the law, you break it, you pay for it no matter how ‘petty’ the law is. Plus this guy was driving around for many years, making this hardly petty.

        • Paul Nieuwkamp

          But he was not driving ‘without’ a license. You don’t forget how to drive from one day to the next just because of some numbers on a piece of paper. If you do know you have to pay money every few years (you don’t renew anything significant, like skills, just some paper and a row in a database somewhere) there’s nothing stopping you from doing so for 17 years.

          So he got arrested over some administrative detail, not because he was a danger to society, which seems quite petty to me.

          • Kathy Plester

            It is illegal to drive without a valid licence. He was doing so for 17 years. He broke the law. It does not matter how well he drives. The law is the law. It is the responsibility of the license holder to renew it so it is not an administrative failure – the fault lies with the man.

            Additionally, as you get over a certain age, as I understand it, when you renew, you have to take eye tests etc. He *could* have been a danger. For all you know he has been driving dangerously.

            Also licenses are renewed every so often because as you age you look different, so having you renew it reduces fraud and identity theft.

            Nobody said he was being arrested for being a menace to society. He broke the law. He should be punished for it.

          • Paul Nieuwkamp

            @Kathy Plester, @Will Flynn, @Ty Vulpine, you are completely missing the point.

            Also, please point out where I say it isn’t illegal.

          • Kathy Plester

            Your point was: But he wasn’t driving without a license, why is he being punished? He was a perfectly good driver.

            Counterpoints were:

            a) An expired license is as good as not having a license – from a legal stand point he *was* driving without one. That invalidates your ‘but he wasn’t driving without a license’ point immediately.

            b) Driving with an expired license is against the law whether you are a good driver or not. There is no exception.

            c) How do you know he hasn’t caused any accidents? It might just be he just hasn’t been *caught*. You don’t now he isn’t a menace to society. Frankly the fact that he didn’t even know he had to renew his license makes me wonder what other driving laws he doesn’t know.

            d) He is not being arrested for being a bad driver or because he suddenly forgot how to drive when his license expired. He is being arrested for driving illegally for 17 years – illegally because (again) you need a valid drivers license to do so. He did not.

            e) They don’t make you renew your license because they think that you’ll magically forget when it comes to renewal. As I stated, there are reasons – to ensure you should still have one (sight tests) and also because your appearance changes over time so it is fraud prevention but also a drivers license is a valid form of photo ID. It is not just some ‘administrative detail’. Furthermore, no he is not being arrested for an administrative detail – like I said it was HIS responsibility to renew it. If he doesn’t, he is being arrested for his own negligence.

          • Paul Nieuwkamp

            Close, but no sigar.

            My points were:
            – driving with an expired license is not as bad (and imho does not warrant an arrest) as driving without any license whatsoever
            and:
            – He got arrested over a small administrative issue (he didn’t pay ad maich money as the next guy) which seems petty to me.

            Not sure why I have to point that out again as that’s pretty much the same text as my first message.

            As for A: he had lessons, and he had someone qualify him to be a safe (enough) driver. How you can compare that to someone who had neither is beyond me.
            B: I never said I wasn’t; do I need to repeat my previous question?
            C: What has that got to do with the issue at hand? This does not distinguish him in the slightest from someone who did pay the protection money, oh, excuse me, renewal fee, when it was due.
            D: See B. Why people think finding something petty equates to thinking it isn’t true (or [il]legal) is again beyond me.
            E: Photo, I’ll give you that, but you will find in the original stpry that this is exactly why he did go there. As for extra tests, I obviously don’t know all the local legislations, but I never heard of any (apart from obvious disabilities, and even then they’re relying on you telling them; at least over here).

          • Cat Amanigh

            You are correct. Ohio revised code lists driving on expired as a misdemeanor. They don’t list jail time as punishment for a first offense. It’s certainly not an arrestable offense.

          • Well, as far as extra tests go, in NY at least, when you renew you need to get a vision screening to prove you’re still capable of seeing well enough to drive safely. Even if you opt to renew online/via mail rather than going in person (which is an option in NY), you still need to take the paperwork to an eye doctor and have the vision screening administered. So there’s that (one reason I’m surprised there are places that issue 50-year licenses).

          • MnM

            I moved from NY to NJ. Unbelievably (to me) there is NO eye test in NJ. Perhaps in other states as well.

          • That legitimately scares me.

          • Mimi

            I had “corrective lenses” on my license for years. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ That’s fine I wear glasses all the time anyway.

            I always try the eye test without them just so I can maybe not have that on my license.

            Haha right like that’s gonna happen…right?

            Last renewal I passed the eye test and my vision while not a lot worse than the last time is 1) slightly worse and 2) certainly no better.

            *I* know that *I* will always be wearing glasses while I drive because I know I can’t see without them.

            How many other people have likewise suddenly passed after years like me and are *not* going to wear them because they don’t *have* to?

            That’s scary…

          • Well, if the DMV doesn’t change their vision chart often enough, I suppose someone could also just memorize the chart and cheat that way. I shudder to think of it.

          • Mimi

            I hadn’t thought about that. That is scary. I think they have a few different ones though to make it kind of random which one you get tested on. Not positive, but I think so and besides if you’re only renewing every 4 years or so would anyone really try to memorize it? Even one?

          • Kathy Plester

            Okay, I did get your point right, you have just phrased it differently and yes, it has been exhaustively covered. Here:

            ‘driving with an expired license is not as bad (and imho does not warrant an arrest) as driving without any license whatsoever’

            In the eyes of the law an expired license *is* as bad as driving without a license because it basically *is* driving without one. Your opinion does not change this. Also he was driving illegally for 17 years. That probably warrants an arrest.

            ‘- He got arrested over a small administrative issue (he didn’t pay ad maich money as the next guy) which seems petty to me.’

            No, he got arrested because when he took out his license to begin with, he accepted all the responsibilities that go with it including getting it renewed when it expired if he wished to continue driving. Whether or not you agree with having to renew it, that is what you have to do if you wish to continue driving. He did not get arrested for not paying as much as everyone else. It was his legal responsibility to get it renewed. He did not fulfil that legal obligation. He was arrested.

            ‘As for A: he had lessons, and he had someone qualify him to be a safe
            (enough) driver. How you can compare that to someone who had neither is
            beyond me.’

            Oh so you think people who cause accidents haven’t taken their drivers test and been given their drivers license like anyone else …? Just because was was qualified to drive, does not mean he still doesn’t have to renew his license. Passing your test doe not give you the ability to drive without a license for as long as you wish. Passing the test really just qualifies you to get a full license. People slip into bag habits, people forget what they were taught. Renewals are necessary.

            ‘B: I never said I wasn’t; do I need to repeat my previous question?’

            Nobody has said you said it wasn’t illegal BUT you keep essentially asking ‘what’s the big deal he had a license it just expired?’ and we are telling you the big deal is. It is illegal. Sometimes illegal things mean being arrested because, y’know, you broke the law.

            ‘C: What has that got to do with the issue at hand? This does not
            distinguish him in the slightest from someone who did pay the protection
            money, oh, excuse me, renewal fee, when it was due.’

            Um … it has to do with the issue because you said ‘So he got arrested over some administrative detail, not because he was a danger to society’. There is no evidence in this story to suggest he wasn’t.

            D: See B. Why people think finding something petty equates to thinking it isn’t true (or [il]legal) is again beyond me.

            Once again, refer to my point b. Nobody is saying you said this but it is clear you need to be reminded. This point also refers to the fact that you seem to think he is being arrested for everything else but what he is being arrested for. This is not saying that you said it wasn’t illegal. The crime is driving without a valid license. This guy did that. Whether you or not you agree with having to renew makes no difference. It is still the current law, and breaking it results in being arrested, and rightfully so.

            ‘E: Photo, I’ll give you that, but you will find in the original stpry
            that this is exactly why he did go there. As for extra tests, I
            obviously don’t know all the local legislations, but I never heard of
            any (apart from obvious disabilities, and even then they’re relying on
            you telling them; at least over here).’

            1. We do not know he is there because he thinks his photo is looking a little inaccurate.
            2. I know several people who report being given a brief eye test before their license is renewed. Additionally it is often the case that if you are over a certain age when you come to renew, you will often be asked to come and take a little test to prove you are still a capable driver, hence again why the renewal is so important.
            3. It is not up to the driver to decide when their picture needs changing. The time between renewals is already set. You may not agree with it, you may see it as pointless, you may see it as just greasing the government’s palms, but when you take your license, you agree to do these things if you want to keep driving and if you do not do them, you are going to get in trouble and it will not be because of you didn’t pay the same as everyone else or some pointless administrative data collecting – it will be because you did not do what you were legally obligated to do and be nobody else’s fault but your own.

            If you still disagree with this law, there are several things you can do about this. First, you can work to change that law by starting petitions and lobbying etc. Or, you can just not drive – choose not to be part of that system.

            But yeah, in summary, guy in this story was totally in the wrong and deserved to be arrested because he messed up big time.

          • Paul Nieuwkamp

            ‘In the eyes of the law itis the same’ Well, then I guess we disagree, probably because of local differences in legislation. Both will get you a fine over here (neither will land you in jail) but the one for an expired one is a lot lower.

            ‘He accepted all the responsibilities’ And what is the one he shirked here? Right, the one where you have to go somewhere, pay some more money and get a new piece of paper (and possibly jump through some extra hoops depending on local legislation).

            A: you’re putting words in my mouth. You do that a lot. I compared driving around after having had lessons and an exam to driving around without having had lessons and an exam. Please point out where I said people with licenses don’t make accidents. As for renewals, I don’t know what hoops you have to jump through to renew your license, but I only have to pay around $50 and hand over a new photo, so that may explain our different viewpoints.

            B: Ah, -just- the fact that it is illegal is enough to close the discussion about it? Fair enough, if that works for you. I rather keep questioning things. Like, is it fair to go to jail for not having paid a $50 fee that you were apparently unaware of and have received zero reminders about. I *know* it is illegal, I never said it wasn’t, I only commented on the pettyness.

            C: There is also nothing to suggest he is, so you’re making things up again; now this guy not only forgot (or didn’t know he had) to renew his license but he also habitually crashes into cars? The story also didn’t tell us if he has murdered a couple of kittens for breakfast but we’re not going around assuming that either. It is in no way relevant to ‘being arrested for driving with an expired license’, just like your accidents aren’t.

            E: once again you are confusing my opinion over something with me thinking it’s not true or not [il]legal, right at the exact point where I ask you not to do that. I’m done.

          • Mimi

            He never said he was driving all those years.

            It’s not illegal to not renew a license unless you are going to drive.

            Even if he did drive on an expired license, the punishment is a ticket and a fine, not arrest.

          • Kathy Plester

            Although he doesn’t explicitly admit to it, given his response of ‘Am I going to be arrested’ means it’s quite likely he has been driving.

            Also, according to Ohio law, if he was caught driving within 6 month of the license expiring, no, he wouldn’t be arrested, but anything longer than that gets bumped up to a first degree misdemeanor which carries a fine of up to $1000 and/or up to 180 imprisonment.

            So yeah, after 17 years he can totally be arrested.

          • Mimi

            IF he is stopped. IF he is observed. Saying “are you going to arrest me” is not an admission of guilt.

          • Kathy Plester

            He does not have to be caught in the act to be arrested for driving without a valid license, however, the police are within their right to detain him so they can gather evidence if they suspect him of it, which they have a right to suspect him of at present. Guy is screwed if his car is parked out front. If they find he has driven to the DMV, or even if he has insurance (that is anything by theft only), or they find footage of him somewhere driving, or any tickets of any kind linked to him and that car, that’s proof enough to have him fined and behind bars. And if they prove it, I also suspect they’ll throw the book at him and give him the max penalty since he was driving almost 20 years with an expired license.

            I’m not saying ‘are you going to arrest me’ is an admission of guilt, it just makes me think he probably has been. The police are going to need more evidence than that but if this guy has been driving for 17 years as I suspect he has based on that response, it won’t be hard.

            Also your initial comment said he wouldn’t be arrested anyway. I was just correcting that. I am aware laws vary from state to state so it is possible that in some you just get ticket, just not where this story takes place.

          • Mimi

            Police, even in Ohio are limited in how long they can detain someone without charging them with a crime. It’s a whole Constitutional thing.

          • Kathy Plester

            Where exactly did I say he could be detained indefinitely?

            Yes, there is limited in how long they can detain him. But they can still detain him i.e they have the right to pack him off in the squad car as happens in the story. If they find proof, he stays arrested, if they don’t, they have to let him go. In this instance he doesn’t have to be caught in the act of driving they just have to prove he did and have a limited window to do so while the detain him.

          • Mimi

            They can detain you 20 minutes (per the SCOTUS) and not necessarily in a squad car.

          • Kathy Plester

            Actually I just did some research and yes, you absolutely can be arrested and taken away even if you were not seen committing the crime, as long as there is reasonable suspicion, and can be detained for as long as it takes (reasonably) to find evidence. If none can be found, all charges will be dropped, if evidence can be found you stay arrested and are formally charged.

          • Kathy Plester

            I hasten to add though that if they find no evidence, then sure, they’ll have to let him go. Provided he doesn’t admit to it on the way, but otherwise, yeah you are right, they will have to let him go. In some states they are allowed to launch a longer investigation which means they could deny him a license while it is ongoing (since they can only detain him so long), though for one guy like this they probably wouldn’t bother.

            I don’t think it would be hard to find evidence for somebody driving that long and I’m willing to bet he drove there.

          • Ty Vulpine

            Paul, drinking with an expired license is equivalent to driving without one as it’s no longer valid.

          • Xena

            I’m not sure what you mean about drinking without a license. I’ve never had a driver’s license but my non driver’s id from the dmv expired and I managed to get by without it for over a decade before I got a new one.

          • Fyva Prold

            >drinking with an expired license
            It’s a driving licence, not drinking licence. It’s illegal to drink under age. But you don’t suddenly become underage when your ID expires.

          • Ty Vulpine

            *facepalm* stupid iPhone autocorrect….

          • I agree. Just because someone doesn’t have a valid license at all and never did doesn’t mean they don’t know how to drive. I’ve known people who learned how to drive, took the classes, and everything, they just never bothered to actually finish up by taking the driving test at the DMV to get the actual license.

          • Mimi

            You don’t need ID to drink. Only to prove you can legally buy alcohol if they ask you to.

          • Will Flynn

            Driving is a privilege, not a right. Not petty, and probably not enough of a punishment for a totally oblivious dipwad.

        • Brian Boorman

          Where’s the proof? At least in the story he never admitted to driving. I would contest it in court, the prosecution has to prove you drove while the license was expired. It’s not a crime to let your license expire if you never drive.

          • Kathy Plester

            They are within their right to take him away to be investigated to ensure he hasn’t been driving. You are right, he didn’t admit to it, but he is trying to renew his license so they need to check he hasn’t been driving. Although based on his response and the way the conversation went, it sounds like he was, especially since he asked if he was going to be arrested instead of ‘Oh I don’t drive I’m just renewing it’. That to me sounds like he has. Either way, they still have the right to detain him, because if he is caught, he may be refused a license.

          • Mimi

            That’s not how it works in the US.

            They can’t just arrest you while they investigate.

            They have to have something to charge you with before they can take you away.

        • Mimi

          In America the authorities need actual proof.

          He never admitted to driving. Unless one plans to drive even having a license, much less renewing one if not a requirement of life in the USA.

      • Harold Wagner

        The man was there after 17 YEARS! He deserves no breaks.

        • TSBJ

          He also went 17 years without an accident or a traffic ticket.

          Clearly a menace.

          • Kathy Plester

            Or maybe he just never got caught.

          • Herbert Pine

            Somehow, I doubt he wasn’t pulled over for something like speeding if he was such a bad driver. A set of numbers you’ll never see in your life and that will stay in a giant database forever, only to be viewed at your next renewal, do not define your level of driving skill.

          • Kathy Plester

            The trouble is we are given so little, we have no idea how good of a driver he is. Maybe he’s caused lots of near misses, or caused a crash and driven off, or maybe he drives like a saint. There is no way of knowing. They didn’t even get that far – only to the fact that his license expired.

          • It’s still possible. I have a cousin who is a terrible driver. Reckless, lots of near misses, speeding, etc. Never been pulled over. Really should be, though.

    • Denton Young

      American cops can get away with anything. Guy’s lucky he wasn’t killed on the spot like the guy in Minnesota. The cop there admitted that Mr Castille posed no threat and he shot him in the head anyway, and was just found not guilty.

  • Beins Jared

    Holy, that’s pretty darn savage. Sucks to be him! o:

    • Denton Young

      That’s why you never say anything out loud in America that could be interpreted as a challenge to the authority of the thugs wearing blue uniforms. They’ll bust you on the spot, if you’re lucky. Or they may just decide to shoot you right then and there.

  • heymoe2001

    Doubtful. The guy wasn’t driving at the moment. No grounds at all.

    • Dani Toussaint

      He admitted it. I have seen it happen. My FIL went to renew his license (it had expired) and they asked him how he got there. He was honest and they called the cops who gave him a huge ticket. They then wouldn’t let him renew his license that day until he paid the fees and the ticket. He had to get a friend come get him to take him to the court house. Small town fun.

      • Chessolin Cat’lady

        I renewed mine 8 months expired and all I had to do was pay an extra $5 and retake the written test.

        • Will Flynn

          And your anecdotal story cancels out everyone else and all evidence to the contrary. Sorry, no.

        • Harold Wagner

          8 months compared to 17 years?

      • divgradcurl

        If the exact wording of the story, is accurate, though, he didn’t admit anything. He just said “They expire?” Though his actual words might have been more damning…and if he HAS been driving illegally for 17 years, then a little digging for evidence could probably prove the case against him.

      • John Grahame

        Please point out where he admitted it. I have $100 waiting for you when you do.

      • Mushroom

        My thought, heymoe: You can’t be arrested for driving without a license if you are not driving at the time. Admission means nothing except that maybe a cop is going to be watching you leave the building so he can make that arrest… or more accurately, give that ticket.

    • Serabeth

      If he drove his car to the DMV, then they could at least charge him for that one time, even if they were unable to prove that he had been driving at other times without a license.

      • RallyLock

        Exactly. It’s like speeding. Sure, the cop can pull you over and ticket you for that one offense, but if you get dumb and say something like “Well, I always drive this fast on this road, and you’re the first cop I’ve ever seen” – the cop can’t legally do anything about those previous trips.

        It’s called “statute of limitations”, and with traffic violations, there’s a VERY short time-frame the cop can work with – usually only a couple of minutes.

        • Herbert Pine

          A couple of minutes? Wow, and here I thought a statue of limitations for a crime averaged like five years.

          • Ambulance Chaser

            That would be if there were probable cause the crime was committed but the police didn’t arrest you for it for some reason. Rallylock is talking about how far back a cop can make an inference that qualifies as probable cause.

          • RallyLock

            Along with what Ambulance Chaser said – it depends on the crime. Murder and Kidnapping, for example, don’t really have any Statute of Limitations – the cops can keep searching for as long as they feel like doing so, and if they find the right person 40 years later, and can prove that that person is the murderer/kidnapper – they can still arrest them.

            For assault and battery or grand theft, they can still arrest you a year later.

            For something as relatively harmless as a minor traffic violation – they pretty much have to pull you over within an hour of either witnessing you commit the crime, or receiving a credible report that you committed a crime.

        • Mimi

          Also they have to see it.

          • RallyLock

            Not necessarily. If another driver or a pedestrian calls in to complain about your driving and has enough identifiable information (i.e. your license plate), and can provide reasonable evidence that you were in fact committing a crime, they can still stop you for it as long as the statute of limitations for that particular crime hasn’t expired. They can’t ticket you unless they can prove you broke the law or if you get dumb and confess to it, but they can stop you and ask about it.

            That’s how a lot of drunk drivers in the USA are caught – either bartenders or other drivers call in with a complaint about suspected drunk driving, and the cops can pull over the vehicle even if the driver isn’t seen breaking any other laws. School bus drivers in the USA also call in somewhat regularly to report people passing their bus when its stopped with red lights flashing (meaning kids are getting on or off), and cops can pull those drivers over.

          • Mimi

            They can stop you yes, but they can’t arrest you based on someone reporting you unless they witness you doing whatever it is that was reported.

            School bus driver’s statements carry a little more weight than if you or I were to call and make a report.

          • RallyLock

            Thanks for reading my entire comment, where I literally said “They can’t ticket you unless they can prove you broke the law or if you get dumb and confess to it, but they can stop you and ask about it.”

      • Mimi

        Not unless an official (i.e. police) saw him drive. It must be observed. That’s why “hearsay” is not something that can be admitted as evidence in court.

        • AliceInWeirdoLand

          Well if the police were going after someone based on a citizen’s report, all they’d have to do is get the citizen to make a statement. Since traffic violations are rarely jury trials (barring things like fatalities) there likely wouldn’t be need for an in-court testimony, right?

          • Mimi

            Actually they can get a citizen’s statement but that doesn’t mean they can go arrest someone. Seriously think about that for a minute. Someone doesn’t like you and they can call the police and say “Alice is cooking meth…” even if you aren’t and the police can just arrest you? No the police must witness them doing something illegal. That’s why “citizen’s arrests” are pointless.

          • AliceInWeirdoLand

            Very true. I am a very tired woman these days and don’t always think before I post.

          • Mimi

            Likewise…

      • AliceInWeirdoLand

        But the officer doesn’t know if he drove or got a ride or whatever; you can’t just yank someone out of line and say ‘you’re under arrest for a driving violation’.

    • Denton Young

      Like that matters to American cops. They’ll use any excuse to arrest you and sort it out later at the station.

  • Jennifer Elaine Holmes

    You get a ticket for driving without a license not arrested to I call bull unless this man was also drunk and disorderly.

    • Deadpool

      Depends on what state. The man admitted to driving without a license for 17 years.

      • John Grahame

        Really? Where , exactly, do you think he did so? There is no mention whatsoever of him driving until the made up cop made up arrests him.

        • Denton Young

          Most cops in America are power hungry bastards who are looking for any reason to exercise their power. I’ve seen people arrested for far less than this. At least THIS guy actually broke a law.

    • lightice

      Well, if he doesn’t have a valid ID, he needs to be arrested until his identity can be verified. It’s unlikely that he was held for more than a couple of hours.

      • Michael Bugg

        That’s not the way it works. You are not required to have valid ID with you except when doing something–e.g., driving, buying alcohol, etc.–that requires to to establish that you have the legal right to do so. You ARE required to answer truthfully if an officer asks your identity, but that’s it.

      • Mimi

        Maybe check the Constitution.

        Americans are not in any way at all required to carry identification.

        Moreover the police (per the SCOTUS) are not allowed to arrest someone for not having it, since that would be unconstitutional.

        They are only allowed to detain you for a limited time (about 20 mins max) to attempt to identify you.

        Americans are not required to prove their identity to the police.

        A driver’s license, which acts as official identification is only necessary if one is driving.

        Most people do carry ID because there are so many places that want to see it (buying alcohol/cigarettes for example) but it is most certainly not required and not at all legal to arrest someone for not having it.

        • lightice

          How do you fine people if the police aren’t allowed to confirm the identity of the people they ticket? You could give any fake details and it would be impossible for the cop to confirm that you are who you say you are.

          • Mimi

            And that happens. The point is that the police are not allowed to detain you beyond about 20 minutes in order to identify you unless you are under arrest. Maybe the SCOTUS can explain it better…it has to do with the Constitution and freedom of movement and association and a non-requirement to carry identification papers.

          • lightice

            Freedom of movement is one thing, but isn’t committing crimes another? I never suggested that a cop could arrest you for just not having an identification, but if you’ve committed a crime and can’t prove your identity, surely they must have to confirm it before processing you?

          • Mimi

            If they see you committing a crime. To just detain you to confirm your identity for no good reason…no. We don’t —yet— live in a police state.

          • lightice

            Exactly, and that’s all that I was saying. At no point did I suggest that a person should be arrested for not having an identification. A person who has committed a some sort of crime, however, should prove their identity somehow before they’re let loose, that’s just common sense. It doesn’t even have to be an ID if they don’t have one, just take them to the station, confirm their story from the public record, fine them and let them go if it’s a minor offence.

          • Mimi

            The thing is about proving their identity before they’re turned lose…the police can only detain you for 20 minutes. If they can’t identify you then they have to let you go unless they are going to arrest you for something which if they were they should have already done. And…police are not allowed to just randomly stop people and demand identification for no reason at all…they have to have a legitimate reason to do so.

          • Mimi

            I think if you are arrested and they can’t identify you then they can (and probably have if anyone wanted to google it to check) charge you as a John/Jane Doe. I mean what else would they do if they could absolutely not ever identify someone they witnessed robbing a bank for instance?

    • darsa

      After a certain period of time elapses, it becomes a felony.

      • Mimi

        Not renewing a license is a felony? Where? No one is required to have or renew a license. It is a requirement to drive period. Don’t drive and let it expire? Not illegal.

        • Sadies Ariel

          If you wanna get REALLY technical, it’s not even a requirement to drive a normal vehicle, only specialty vehicles.

          We had a fun 3 hour discussion about it in one of my philosophy / ethics classes one time.

        • Kathy Plester

          No, having an expired license isn’t illegal, but you need a valid license to drive. If they can prove this guy has been driving, he moves from being detained to full on arrest.

          • Mimi

            Ok true. However “are you gonna arrest me” isn’t proof, not by a long shot and the cop would have been falsely arresting him. It didn’t happen, the story is fake, but if it were a real thing, the arrest wold have been illegal because no one had proven a thing.

          • Kathy Plester

            Um I didn’t say it was proof …..?

            Also, as I said, it is perfectly legal to detain him to determine if the crime has happened, especially one of this level of severity.

          • Mimi

            How are they gonna prove 17 years? Moreover there is a stature of limitations on pretty much everything. other then murder.

          • Kathy Plester

            They do not have to prove he drove for those 17 years – only that he drove at all any time within those 17 years. The law states that if the license has expired for more than 6 months it is bumped up to an arrestable offence. It doesn’t say you have to have been driving for all those years, it relates to how long ago the license expired at the time you are caught out. He could still get that penalty even if that day was the first time he had driven in 17 years. Also the statute of limitation would not count for this since that day is the first day he would be charged with it (assuming they can prove this, of course). If they do find evidence, nothing is going to stop him from being arrested.

      • AliceInWeirdoLand

        Source? Also, that doesn’t change the fact that the cop didn’t see him driving, so he can’t make the arrest.

        • Kathy Plester

          If you go to the Ohio DMV site it does state anything longer than 6 months after expiry gets bumped up a first
          degree misdemeanour resulting in a fine of up to $1,000 and/or not more than
          180 days imprisonment. I’d post the link but discuss freaks out.

    • Don Burke

      When you get a ticket, you are actually under arrest until you provide ID and sign the agreement to appear.

    • James Smith

      I call bullshit because the cop didn’t actually see him driving without a license, therefore has no evidence that he did. But you’re incorrect about being arrested. When I was 18, my license was suspended without my knowledge due to a clerical error. I was pulled over for a bum taillight; the cop ran my license, found it suspended, and I was indeed arrested, cuffed and stuffed, and taken to jail. Took months to straighten that out.

      • Mimi

        You were arrested because it was suspended not for it being expired.

        • James Smith

          Suspended license, expired license, and no license are all the same offense: driving without a valid license, which is what the cop in the story specifically says.

          • Mimi

            No they most certainly are not the same thing.

            If your license is suspended then you have done something wrong. You are being punished.

            Not ever having a license is also an offense.

            Not getting it renewed is not illegal. Driving on an expired license is illegal but if you don’t drive, you are not under any legal obligation to renew it.

            Having a valid license but not having it with you is generally treated differently. Technically it is driving without a license because it’s not on your person, but it’s not the same as driving without ever bothering to get one.

            I got called at 3 am one new years day morning to to pick up my nephew’s car about a block or so away from my house so that it didn’t get impounded.

            It was 3 am. I forgot to grab my wallet as I went for my middle of the night walk. The cop ran my name, making sure I possessed a valid license and let me go with the car.

          • James Smith

            Driving without a valid license is the offense for which I was (erroneously) arrested. The way in which your license is invalid (suspension, expiration, nonexistence) is irrelevant. The relevant thing is that you are driving, and you do not have a valid license.

            A suspension is punishment, but that punishment has already occurred if you are driving with your license suspended. If you are caught doing it, the further consequences are the same as any other kind of unlicensed driving, because the offense is the same.

            The rest of your post about not having your valid license with you is also irrelevant, since that is not the situation described in the story or in my unfortunate experience.

          • Kathy Plester

            In the eyes of the Ohio law, while each of those things are different, driving with a suspended license and an expired license are the same as driving without one. It’s on their website where it defines ‘driving without a license’.

    • Sirwonderousmary

      Depends on where you are and who stops you. My dad told me that my mom got arrested a long time ago when a cop stopped her and saw her license was expired. There was a bit of a language barrier and when he asked if she knew it was expired? She said yes and was arrested without a warning. She almost got sent off to a private women’s jail if my dad didn’t come to pick her up from the jail. She’s been afraid of cops ever since.

    • Herbert Pine

      I don’t know much about driving laws, but he admitted to ignorance about the driving. Even if it’s hard not to realize that it expires, I doubt the cop would be able to make a very good case since all the opposing lawyer would have to do is plead ignorance on the customer’s part.

      • ShadeTail

        Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. If his lawyer really tries that defense, the judge will likely laugh him out of court.

      • Ambulance Chaser

        No there’s no such defense as “I didn’t know this was illegal.”

        • Richard Da Bunny

          Yet

    • Kathy Plester

      1. In Ohio, if you drive without a valid license that is more than 6 months out of date then it becomes an arrestable offence which also carries heavy fines.
      2. Even if he didn’t admit it they have probable cause to detain him to obtain evidence. Guy is screwed if his car is parked out front.
      3. If they can’t find any evidence, then they let him go.

  • Scram Clam

    And then the DMV applauded and the officer handed OP $100.

    • RallyLock

      Don’t forget the mayor handing the DMV cashier a symbolic “key to the city” for identifying this psychopath as the infamous LICENSELESS DRIVER! the cops have been hunting for 17 years.

      • fogharty

        They also forgot to mention when the irate customer, I mean, offender ran out the door. Oh wait, tried to run out the door but couldn’t because he was arrested!

  • Amy Susan Fisher

    I’m usually not someone who yells “fake!” at these stories, but this one doesn’t seem right. Wouldn’t the driver’s license have an expiration date on the front of it? And if he went in previously to get a new picture, wouldn’t they have told him he had to renew the actual license along with the new picture, and refuse to give him a new picture until he did renew the license? And a cop just HAPPENS to be standing in line and promptly arrests him? This one is hard for me to believe.

    • Ty Vulpine

      Some people don’t pay attention to what’s on the card.

      • Mimi

        Now I’m thinking I need to go check the expiration date on my license…

    • Will Flynn

      Not only do folks not pay attention to little details like that, but locally, when you renew in person they tell you that you *must* apply your new decals for them to be effective, that having them “in their glove box” does not count, and then seeing these self same brilliant ones argue that they *did* renew, it’s right here in the glove box officer. Really, really easy for me to believe. No one likes to read or listen anymore it would seem.

      • Siirenias

        I was pulled over twice before I got a clue and changed my decal the same day as the second stop. I figure they can’t all be warnings!

    • Kraziekat

      I know locally, the DMV and the tax collector’s are all in the same place, so you get your car’s plates, decals for renewals, driver’s license, and sports license (fishing, hunting, etc.) all in one place. And I’ve always seen active duty police officers there.

      • Holly

        Yep, there are always active duty police at all of the DMV offices in my area.

        • John Grahame

          So what? Unless the guy drove a car up to the counter, there is no evidence he ever committed any crime. Yes his licence is expired, no, there is no basis whatsoever for him being arrested.

          • Holly

            I was responding to the comment that the presence of a police officer at the moment this man was at the DMV was unlikely. I don’t know if an arrest was possible. It doesn’t appear to be the case in my state (CA) no matter how long the person was driving without a valid license if they are caught for the first time. However, to play devil’s advocate, if the man drove to the DMV and there is evidence that he did, there is a case for giving him a ticket, whether the officer saw him behind the wheel or not.

          • Ellen Mottley Tannenbaum

            Even police officers have to renew their licenses. That is the plausible detail in the story. The arrest, highly unlikely unless the office had seen the guy drive up in the car.

          • Yeah, the police officer’s presence isn’t the far-fetched element to the story.

            I know it varies state-to-state (I’ve never personally had a license that was good for more than 11 years, and I’ve lived in four different states), but all the DLs I’ve seen have an expiration date on the front, so it’d be kind of a stretch for him to claim he never noticed that.

          • Isilzha

            I have an Az license that would have been good until 2030 if I hadn’t gotten a NM license. I got it in 93 or 94. It was an insanely long time for a driver’s license. They changed the laws not too long after that, I think. But with the Real ID crap it doesn’t matter anyway; you’d pretty much have to get a new license.

          • Mimi

            Even if he’d seen him (the story implies otherwise) it would be a ticket at most. A ticket that says “renew your freaking license.”

          • Kathy Plester

            If his car is parked out front, they can check the CCTV footage (it’s a government building it is bound to have all sorts of cameras) and if they catch him in the drivers seat pulling up, then he is screwed.

            He can at least be detained and if they don’t find any evidence then he can just plead he wasn’t driving, but if they do, that’s it.

    • Holly

      After my dad died, my mom kept tossing the car registration notifications in the trash as “junk mail.” She wasn’t old or senile. She had just never dealt with renewing the registration. Luckily for her, I noticed one of the DMV letters before she could scoop it into the trash. Her late registration penalty was quite sizable by then. Again, luckily for her, she didn’t drive much, although she did drive, and no cop had ever stopped her for expired license plates.

    • Fanatastic

      Just the fact that he got arrested..on the spot..with no proof that he’d ever driven without a license is enough to call bullshit. That’s not how any of this works.

      • Michael Bugg

        This. For all they knew, he’d been living in the city and using public transportation for all those years. Without an out-and-out admission that he’d driven on the expired license, the officer couldn’t do anything to him. Besides, barring a bench warrant, that’d just be a ticketing offense in most places.

        • Scott O

          Even with the admission, it doesn’t matter. You have to be seen/caught doing it.
          You can tell an officer you were speeding, but they can’t give you a ticket for it unless your caught doing it.
          So I agree, fake. At least the last part is made up.

        • Kathy Plester

          Well they do have the right to detain him if he is suspected of it and if they find his car outside, then he;s screwed. They can only detain him for a short while – I think it’s 24 hours but this varies from state to state and sometimes from town/city to town/city.

          You don;t have to be caught in the act of doing this, they just have to prove you were driving and if you were caught on CCTV pulling into the DMV and your car is parked out front .. well that’s proof.

          • LadyBelle

            Except this is the US, so no CCTV. Even if his car is parked outside, he could still state someone else gave him a ride and then left. The person never stated clearly they were driving on an expired license, and even so, that is a ticket offense, not an arrest offense

          • Kathy Plester

            Really? No building, not even government buildings, in the US use cameras of any form of surveillance? Surprising, since several friends of mine who live in Ohio say that their DMV uses CCTV or some form of recorded surveillance and those things are everywhere. Maybe it’s just where you are that doesn’t use cameras, but where this story takes place they certainly do.

            Also, let’s say he claims a friend drove him in his car to the DMV, the officer would ask where that friend is, why they’re not in the car, and might also ask for their contact details so they can call said friend and verify. This is another reason to detain him for questioning – so they can get to the bottom of whether or not he has been driving or not. But again, as I said, there’s a good chance he was caught on camera, and if he was behind the wheel, that’s proof. If it shows he walked there, or got a taxi or a friend drove him, he’s fine.

            Obviously if they find no evidence then they let him go without even a fine, because if they can’t prove he did something illegal, then there’s nothing they can do. It’s not illegal to own an expired license, it’s just illegal to drive with one.

            BUT if they do manage to prove he drove even once in those 17 years, according to Ohio law, if the license expired more than 6 months ago, it gets bumped up to an arrestable offence which can carry a fine of up to $1000 and up to 180 days jail time. So no, in this case, it’s not just a ticket. Maybe if it was within the 6 months, but outside of it, you can be looking at a hefty fine and jail time.

    • ShadeTail

      No, this is perfectly plausible. I check people’s ID all the time for my job, and I long ago lost count of how many people honestly hadn’t noticed that their ID had expired, despite the date on the front. And you think cops don’t go to places like the DMV? I’ve had cops in my line at my job. And nowhere did the fool ever say he’d gone in previously to get a new picture, so there’s no reason to think that ever came up.

      So it’s perfectly plausible that he’d just been driving with an expired license for nearly 20 years without knowing better, and it’s also perfectly plausible that the cop was there and arrested him on the spot. And since others have brought it up, yes it is quite plausible that the cop arrested him for this, because even if you argue that he didn’t really admit to anything, there’s plenty of probable cause to take him in for this.

      • Lord Retro

        I went to a job interview that required driving with an expired license. It was January and it had expired the previous August. I never realized it since it was a relatively new license as I had just updated my address after a move. The lady at the dmv told me that I updated JUST outside the window to renew so they had kept the same exp. date as my old one.

        Flip side is I got pulled over on my 18th birthday and I had already renewed my license that morning and got “points for being organized” and a warning for 75 in a 55 (I had just gotten off the interstate and hit “resume” on my cruise control while talking to my friend.)

      • Mimi

        For what? 1) He never said he’d been driving on an expired license and 2) it’s a ticket, not an arrest.

        • ShadeTail

          Are you under the impression that you can only be arrested when you actually admit you broke the law? One wonders why criminals everywhere haven’t figured that out yet. Just lie about what you did, or at least don’t actually admit to it, and the police can do nothing. What a concept.

          Yeah, no. This guy had a license that was 17 years out of date, and which he was clearly still using. He also belligerently challenged the DMV staff to arrest him for it. There is definitely probable cause that he’d been using his expired license in illegal ways. And you definitely don’t know that whatever he was doing would be worth only a ticket.

          • Dani Marie

            Exactly!
            Plus all the people blithering on about ‘not enough evidence for an arrest’ don’t seem to understand the difference between an arrest and a conviction!
            There are plenty of people arrested and later released by judges who determine there wasn’t sufficient grounds for an arrest (or their lawyers get the evidence thrown out on technicalities).
            The OP said the guy was ARRESTED for this, not CONVICTED!! :p

    • Lorraine ER

      Yeah, all he would have had to do is say “I got a ride here.” The officer didn’t see him driving and there is no proof he was actually driving without a license. Unless that cop *really* didn’t want to be there for some reason it wouldn’t be worth the paperwork or having an arrest that could be so easily dismissed in court. It doesn’t make sense on multiple levels. The expiration date is on the front of my license though just FYI. But when they expire, a lot of places will not only tell you but won’t let you use them. You can’t rent a car or even buy liquor in some stores, not to mention all the other things we need I’D for.

      • Mimi

        Driving with an expired license is a ticket, not an immediate arrest with no actual proof thing.

        I’ve lived (and been licensed) in several states. Every single license expired on my birthday. Is there somewhere that it doesn’t?

        • Sadies Ariel

          No they always expire on birthdays but you can renew whenever you please (though if it’s farther than 90 days before your birthday it’s only valid for 3 years instead of 4 and you have 30 days after it expires to get it renewed with no repercussions – Ohio laws) but once some people get to a certain point they stop paying attention to birthdays and things like that so I can see how it would be easy to miss your renewal date by a few months or even a year, especially since they no longer send out reminder notices.

        • Kathy Plester

          Driving with a license that expired more than 6 months ago bumps it up to an arrestable offence, which means the guy could have been detained on suspicion of it while they gather evidence. His care being parked outside and footage showing him driving in would be evidence enough. You don’t need to be caught in the act for this. You just have to find some way to prove he has been driving.

          If they can’t find anything after the detaining period they have to let him go, though.

        • Dani Marie

          If it had been years and years, then yes it’s an arrestable offense… because it’s fraud by then!
          The guy has been driving around for years without paying a yearly fee for a license, like the rest of us have to!
          Besides, even if it wasn’t something you could be arrested for, a cop can still arrest you and the judge can let you go later on if they determine the cop didn’t have sufficient cause to arrest you in the first place!

          • Mimi

            Do you renew your license every single year? No? Of course not. Not one single state in the US is less than like three years. Fraud? Sure ok.

            “Besides, even if it wasn’t something you could be arrested for, a cop can still arrest you and the judge can let you go later on if they determine the cop didn’t have sufficient cause to arrest you in the first place!”

            A cop can just arrest people without a justifiable cause and you have to prove that they acted improperly? Are you at all familiar with the Constitution and the right not to be arrested just because some capricious cop decides he wants to do it with no actual evidence? GTFO.

      • Kathy Plester

        They don’t have to see you committing the offence to be able to arrest you, they just have to have reasonable belief that you did and I think they do here.

        Also, if this guy is driving without a valid license, this could be serious, especially for 17 years. For one, should he cause an accident, not having a valid license invalidates his insurance (assuming he even has any). So this explains why the officer might care enough to get out of line. There’s also that in most states, officers have a legal obligation to report anything they see that is illegal whether they are on duty or not. I mean he could pretend he didn’t hear anything I guess, but maybe he decided it was serious enough.

        Also if they can find footage of him driving up to the DMV, it wouldn’t be dismissed in court.

        My guess is they detain him, see if they can find evidence, but they’re just going to check a few places, they won’t look very hard, not for this. Like you said, not worth it, but it’d be enough to make sure this guy doesn’t ‘forget’ again.

        • Isilzha

          You really think the police are going to go to that much effort for driving with an expired license? There are actual emergencies they need to deal with and plenty of more serious crimes to put time into.

          • Kathy Plester

            Whether it is serious crime or not, the police have to deal with it even if they might have ‘better things to do’. Its kind of their job and they can get in trouble if they ignore a crime They’re not going to be able to control which crimes they get landed with. This is why police often divide themselves into things like just general police who take on speeding tickets and parking ticket duty, and some who focus on robberies etc.

            That said, I don’t think they’d expend too much energy on this guy – they’d check whether his car was out there, check the CCTV and whether he had insurance but I don’t see them launching a major investigation.

    • Sionyx

      Agreed. As an Ohioan, the date’s right on the front of the card, and the DMV worker wouldn’t have needed to do any typing to get to the “Sir, this has expired” phase of things. As someone who used to work in the financial sector and got to check ID’s for loans, people DO forget about renewing the license, but I’ve never heard “It has to be renewed?” as part of the rant about why can’t I just process the loan with the expired ID. (Why I Can’t: A: It’s illegal. B: I’d get fired. C: I’d get the whole office in trouble, which could lead to THEM getting fired, too. D: Getting the office in trouble may lead to the branch shutting down, taking away our services from the town. E: The computer won’t let me. And if you’ll stop yelling at me, Sir/Ma’am, the BMV’s in the same plaza as this office and we’re lucky enough to live in a town that doesn’t have bad lines at the BMV.)

    • Dani Marie

      You guys all realize that an arrest doesn’t equal a conviction, right?
      The cop arrested and carted him off to be processed… then a judge COULD have released him at arraignment if they determined that the cop didn’t have sufficient grounds to arrest him!
      But I do wonder how he updated the photo without renewing and paying for a new license. The only think I can think of is that he took a picture with a camera and stuck it on top of the license every year for 20 years! 😀 😀

  • Xena

    I call fake as well as there is no proof that he drove with an expired license. If he walked outside and saw him get in his car to drive away I can see an arrest or a ticket happening but until then it’s possible that he wasn’t even driving.

    Looking at google it seems like an arrest would be really unlikely. He would have likely just got a ticket and not been allowed to drive his car away, assuming he left and got in a car and tried to drive it when he left.

    • Will Flynn

      They admitted it. Good enough. Not fake.

      • John Grahame

        Like you just admitted being a paedophile you mean? Neither thing happened but apparently something not happening is good enough for YOU to assert it did. The cops are on their way to lock you up, you admitted kiddy fiddler.

        • James Smith

          I think accusations of being a rapist/pedophile are the new Godwin’s Law.

    • Harold Wagner

      17 years? How many people with a drivers license stop driving for 17 years? I don’t buy your cry of “fake”, Xena.

      • divgradcurl

        In some cities? A lot of people; driving is a pain in the ass.

        And even in places where most people drive, you can’t assume that anyone with an expired license has been driving illegally, rather than simply not driving at all.

        • Harold Wagner

          If he came to the DMV by himself in an area with little public transportation it would be likely.

          • Cat Amanigh

            Likely, sure. But observed by the officer? Arrested for hearsay? Not likely for what’s not generally an arrestable offense.

          • Harold Wagner

            *shrugs* It could happen

          • AliceInWeirdoLand

            All he has to do is say he got a ride from someone.

  • Asiyd

    Bull.

  • Luke Green

    What a total idiot.

  • Ian Rennie

    of all the things that didn’t happen, this didn’t happen the most.

  • Buttttters

    Well, what are you going you do, arrest me? – Arrested man.

  • I’ve gotten pulled over four times for having expired tags, ticketed twice. Always paid the fee, and then lost the stickers before I can put them on. It was the first five months of 2015 and the entirety of 2016. My brother’s been pretend arrested “to teach him a lesson,” for admitting to traffic violations to a California highway patrol officer that was being state-owned city park security. One of my coworkers got arrested for looking for his keys in a hedge at 4 am.
    I have no trouble believing this story

    • Mimi

      Was your friend on meth or something? Not illegal to be outside at 4 AM. Not illegal to be looking for keys in a hedge at 4 AM. WTF kind of charge was it?

  • Alison L Barrett

    I don’t think an officer, not on duty if he was in line, would be able to arrest him. Where is the proof he drove? No one to witness it. BS.

  • Angela Kershner

    Arresting this person rather than simply getting him a new license and reminding him licenses expire was clearly a good use of taxpayer money. /sarcasm

  • Janai Kameka

    The only reason I say this is pretty unbelievable is because he came into the DMV to renew his license even though he had no idea that it had expired. I mean seriously?

    • Cat Amanigh

      He was renewing registration plates. Some states call them tabs. The little stickers that go on the metal plates that identify your car. The expired document was a driver license, that identifies the individual.

      • Interesting. I’ve never heard them called tabs. Tags, sure.

        • Cat Amanigh

          The stickers are officially called tabs in Washington state.

        • Mimi

          In Washington they are called tabs. Took me a while after moving up here from California where we called them tags.

          • Fair enough. They’re called tags here in GA, but I learned to drive in NY where it’s just “plates,” and we moved from CT where you hear “tag sale” all the time and it refers to a yard sale, so going to the “tag office” throws me here in GA.

          • Mimi

            Funny how the same words/phrases mean different things in different places. Here a “tag sale” would mean a sale at a store.

            My tabs expire in August. I just told my husband he needs to go “over to the ‘tab place’ by the gym and renew them.” I just ow thought about how I phrased that…

  • T Tsura
  • Eh…. Easy enough mistake to make. Dad, at one point quite a few years ago, didn’t believe that his bank card expired… despite the fact that there is an expiry date on the card.

    BUT the Department of Transport in Australia usually sends out renewal letters, and I’d like to think Ohio runs along a similar path so… what did he think when he got his renewal notice?

  • Souless night

    “I’m here to renew my license. What do you mean I have to renew it!?” What…?

    • ShadeTail

      He was pretty clear that he thought all you had to do was just get a new picture every now and then, and didn’t realize that they actually expire. I have to card people all the time at my job, and I’ve encountered more than I can count who hadn’t bothered to pay attention to the expiration date on their license. I can believe all too easily that someone might not even realize that there is an expiration date.

  • Claude Mckenzie

    In all fairness some states do issue driver’s licenses for a very long time. I live in Arizona and they will issue you a driver’s license for 50 freaking years.

    • BR

      Maybe that’s why he thought his picture needed updating too!

      Your Arizona driver’s license is valid until you are
      65 years old. During this time you will not need to renew your license; however, you will need to visit an AZ DMV office every 12 years to update your photo and take a vision exam. See the “Update Your AZ Driver’s License Photo” section below for more information.

      • Fae Young

        I have a state ID with no expraction so go suck on that

  • BR

    Without tone, I’m not sure how I feel. If he was yelling and acting aggressively, I’d support the officer’s actions.

  • HeadlessGhostOfAbrahamLincoln

    You don’t get arrested for driving without a license, even for 17 years. You get a citation and your car towed of you are caught. Fake

    • ShadeTail

      Sometimes you do, particularly if it is somehow a flagrant offense (example: you got caught multiple times before and you still hadn’t fixed it). And when told his license was expired, he clearly realized right away that it was probably illegal and responded with a rather brazen, “What are you going to do, arrest me?” In a situation like that, I can’t help but agree with the cop.

      • Mimi

        He never even admitted driving much less was he observed doing so.

        If he’d been caught multiple times his license wouldn’t have been “expired” it would have been “suspended” and that would have been in this very fake story.

        • ShadeTail

          As I pointed out to you above, it doesn’t matter at all that he didn’t admit it. Seriously, where did you get this idea that not admitting to a crime is a magic barrier to being arrested for it? He was trying to update a 17-year-expired license, so he was clearly still using it, and he belligerently challenged the people there to arrest him. That’s more than enough for probable cause. And since you don’t actually know what crimes he did or didn’t commit, you have no basis to claim that he shouldn’t have been arrested.

  • I’ll bet that was the last thing he pictured happening when he went in.

  • Brett Stoner

    Nothing in this story seems legitimate. License services in Ohio are contracted out and run by contractors. Not law enforcement. The contractors don’t pay for police services at the locations to have an officer present. Some BMV locations have the Ohio State Patrol present who run the testing and driving exam portion adjacent to the deputy registars. They are civilian state employees. If an officer was at the BMV he would have been there on his off time for his business or handling a different call. If that was the case he would call into dispatch to have a marked unit observe him attempting to leave to stop him.

    To cite someone for an expired license I have to observe the infraction. Secondly, you receive a citation for driving on an expired license. You dont arrest. I have been an officer in Ohio since 2001 and have never arrested anyone for driving on an expired license. Only time I would arrest someone was for an out of state person driving on a suspended license to make them post bail (otherwise they leave town and never address the ticket). And that has only been a couple times in my career.

    Several more points he would have received mailings notifying him of the expiration.

    How would he renew his plates with an expired license for the past almost 20 years? 10 to 20 years ago Ohio didn’t have online plate renewal and you would have had to go to the BMV to show ID. They would confiscated the expired license when he renewed his plates and either get a new license, temp license, or an ID depending on how long expired.

    Nothing in this story is remotely plausible.

    • Mimi

      Even without an online renewal couldn’t a patron have renewed tabs through the mail?

      Thank you for your actually knowledgeable about how the law works in Ohio comment. I hope other people read it.

      Can you address something for me please? OP calls it “DMV” and you call it “BMV.” Are the names interchangeable in Ohio? Or is it only “BMV,” which further undermines the legitimacy of the OP since they are saying they are in Ohio but obviously don’t know what it’s called?

      In Washington it’s the “Department of Licensing.” Any license for anything goes through DOL, though there are different departments within DOL (i.e. medical licenses, business licenses, car registration, etc.) Nevertheless everyone mostly calls it “DMV” or “DOL” pretty equally.

      • Brett Stoner

        Another good point. Everyone here calls it the BMV. Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles. Nobody calls it the DMV. Like in Michigan everyone calls it the secretary of state. SOS.

        You can renew your plates through the mail but that is fairly recent. You use to have to go to the bmv, bring your license and birth certificate or ssn card to renew every year. Oh it was a pain.

        • Mimi

          OMG what aPITA that sounds like. Even way back in the dark ages my parents always renewed through the mail in California. I’m talking like the 60s.

          I can renew in person, online, or through the mail here. I usually go in person because I want my tabs right now and don’t want to wait for them to come in the mail, but I have the options.

          I don’t remember them asking for a DL or an ID. I mean I’m just renewing the registration, not changing the title.

      • What you call it certainly seems to vary from state to state. Here in GA, it’s the Department of Driver Services (but I haven’t seen people abbreviate it DDS, probably because that’s usually on dentists’ signs), but you do plates at the Tag Office. In NY, UT, and CT, it was the DMV (though in UT the D is for Division, not Department). Other states call it the RMV (Registry of Motor Vehicles).

        I’d say it’s 50/50 whether OP was making things up and used DMV or if an editor thought it was a typo and changed it.

        • Mimi

          Ah yeah ok . know different states call it different things. California and Oregon call it DMV but Washington —just has to be different. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

  • Chelsea Mackinder

    I’m inclined to call BS simply because of the amount of time that elapsed since that license expired. In my state, at least, most places that ID won’t accept expired licenses, and there’s no way he went 17 years without needing to show ID for SOMETHING.

  • Mimi

    Nope. Police don’t arrest people for something they don’t witness or have a warrant for. Saying “I drove on an expired license” is not proof and normally not an arrestable offense anyway.

    • AliceInWeirdoLand

      I mean if you say it out loud it’s an admission of guilt, right? It’s still a moot point because he didn’t say that he drove, of course.

      • Mimi

        Maybe yeah, but he would still need to be observed by the police.

  • danielle

    this story doesn’t seem logical to me. I highly doubt one would be arrested on the spot when they are in the process of getting their license updated, regardless if it has been since 1998. Either this never happened, or we are missing much more detail to the story.

  • Pickwick2

    I sincerely doubt there’s any truth in that story at all. 1) How could he not have known licenses expire? 2) How did he get a “new picture” on his license without renewing the license? 3) How could he be arrested for driving without a license when he wasn’t driving at the time?

  • mouser

    This is not a true story. You cannot be arrested for driving with an expired license if you aren’t driving. Absurd. What an idiot.

  • I recently renewed a liscense that had been expired for awhile (couple months money was tight). Dmv asked no questions, didn’t say anything… Just processed the paperwork and carried on like normalized were polite and friends to boot.